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Michael
Flatley participates in UCD Law Society Debate on Boxing On
St. Patrick's Day in 1998, sports writer Pat Bigold stated in an article that
when Michael Flatley exploded onto the scene, he personified a link between two
of an Irishman's greatest passions: Sports and the Arts. Excerpt:
Flatley
possesses an undeniable appeal as a throwback to a simpler era when men were men,
and they weren't so worried about their identity that they couldn't express themselves
with style and artistry. Flatley does it with gusto and you can see the
boxer's body english every time he steps on stage. Any kid who's ever had the
word "footwork" drilled into him time and again ought to watch the "Riverdance"
or "Lord of the Dance" videotapes in which Flatley performs to see how
a boxer's feet can move. Check out the fight choreography in Lord of the Dance
where Flatley, at 40-plus, makes you believe he could still go a strong five or
six rounds. Right down to the antagonistic facial expressions he casts at his
arch-rival, the guy still looks every inch a fighter. Read the full column
by clicking here. Champion
Irish dancer Michael Flatley was also a Golden Gloves Amateur Boxing champion
in his youth, and often attends the matches of those he admires in the sport.
Boxing is not without controversy, due to the encouragement of intentional violence
and the high risk of brain injury in the sport, and was the subject of a debate
at the University College Dublin's Law Society. We thank Ann Keller (AnnMargaretKeller.com)
for the following report of the evening.• • •
On
Thursday, January 15th, 2004 I was at UCD (University College, Dublin) to see
Michael presented with Honourary Life Membership of the Law Society and take part
in their boxing debate. Before the house was the proposal 'This house would ban
boxing!' and about six or eight students spoke, plus guests Michael and a member
of the British Boxing Board, Simon Block. He was a very dignified and eloquent
gentleman and spoke very well and very informatively. Another guest, a doctor,
was supposed to speak also, but didn't get there.
The evening was not
what was suggested by all the advertising, as I imagined a large crowd after all
the hype through the week, several snippets in the press, even a TV announcement
that morning, but the lecture theatre remained not filled and I doubt there were
more than 50 people present, including about ten press photographers clicking
away - not great for my little old tape recorder as one was right in front of
it! I did miss an odd word that Michael said because of that, and also because
he speaks so softly the audience had to almost hold its breath to catch all he
said - and that they did! I don't think they were at all informed about him beforehand,
maybe they had rashly invited him thinking he would never come! But if they thought
that, they had no idea what a soft touch he is with the aspirations of young people!
He just loves to help them and support them, and in fact he and Lisa had flown
in specially for the evening and were flying straight on the New York early next
morning. It was a lovely gesture that they both came, and I think that had sunk
in to the organisers once they had met and talked to them, as the host of the
evening came in to apologise for the delay starting (due to a 'media circus' in
the hallway!) and said very warmly that he has just met and talked to Michael
and what an extremely nice guy he was! Obviously he was not what they expected.
Perhaps they expected him to be flamboyant and boisterous, as if he were onstage!
When the event started, Michael walked in, no "minders" in evidence,
and sat with Simon Block at the back of the platform, and Lisa took a front seat
in the corner, also unaccompanied. Michael was all in black, looking very well,
fit and tanned - I think he gets younger by the year, not older! - and Lisa looked
very elegant in a shiny black suit with belted jacket and pencil skirt to the
knee, very dainty high-heeled shoes, and of course the wonderful tumble of blonde
hair around her shoulders. I especially admired her pendant, a beautifully simple,
classy little diamond studded puffed heart on a short white gold (or platinum?!)
chain. She is very tall and incredibly slim - in a contest, I think the Supermodels
would run her a poor second! She looked lovely. And although I'm sure the evening
was really very boring for her, she remained attentive throughout, and joined
in the laughter as much as Michael, who seemed to genuinely enjoy it all thoroughly.
Michael spoke at the end of the evening, after the other speakers, and was
the only one no one interrupted as they could by the rules! The form was that
the speaker was left alone for three minutes (a bell marked the time), then he
could be questioned or commented to, and he spoke for a further five minutes altogether.
All were interrupted save Michael, who had the house spellbound within seconds,
though he appeared to be just casually talking, delivering the speech as smoothly
as though it were regular conversation, and with no notes of any kind. He gave,
in my view, a superb demonstration of really professional public speaking, very
quiet and calm, speaking slowly enough to be followed by everyone, and forming
complete and natural sentences. Yet he conveyed his passion and energy just the
same. He only got one thing wrong as far as I was concerned - he referred to himself
as 'uneducated compared to you youngsters'. He may not have a college degree,
but he is without doubt one of the most educated and cultured people I have ever
met.
After the speeches, the vote was taken and the motion to ban boxing
defeated beyond doubt! Then the presentation was made, Michael receiving the simple
scroll as graciously and warmly as though it were an Oscar! After that the audience
were invited to ask questions, not just on boxing, and only then I think they
began to open up, realising this man had a lot more to share than they had thought!
Again, he was self-effacing, murmuring that he liked to "play a little chess"
(that had been suggested as one better channel for young people's diversion!),
and I was itching to jump up and tell them he is a Chess Master, but of course
I didn't!
The most interesting part of that section of the evening, for
me, was when the Las Vegas casino project came up, because when Michael spoke
about that it was very revealing. It became clear immediately to me 'why' he is
doing it, which I think puzzles many people. This is not about personal gain,
business growth of his empire, or celebrity, this is for the worldwide profile
of Ireland. He is so passionate about promoting Ireland well, and giving its people
new opportunities on the world stage in every area. He has seen many other countries
represented by their magnificent hotel/casino projects on the Strip, and it has
become his 'almost impossible dream' to put Ireland there too, so all the Irish
companies and artists can be showcased there with the world's best. His real joy
is opening new worlds for upcoming generations; he has done it in dance, and now
he is moving on to other areas. I came away from that evening thinking that even
most of his most loyal fans have only partial concept of what an extraordinary
and wonderful, giving man he is. And I truly believe he has only just begun to
show the world what he can achieve.
At the end, the audience came down
to have posters of the Law Society, scraps of paper, anything, signed, just to
get to talk to him close-up! He and Lisa both chatted to all who came to them,
and they must have been there near half an hour, totally informal and delightfully
relaxed. I had the pleasure of chatting to Lisa while he was signing, and she
was so sweet, very natural and softly and gently spoken, radiating the same warmth
and sparkle from her eyes as Michael does. When I spoke to Michael I told him
I was sorry not to be able to go to New York for the PBS show, but friends of
mine were going and I knew he would have good people there. He thanked me for
coming to that night, and said he was looking forward to meeting everyone at the
PBS show. I asked if they had had a nice Christmas and they said yes, it had been
lovely, very relaxing, and it was so good to just stop and pause after all the
travel of 2003, when they just seemed to be constantly jetlagged.
Finally,
after one more photo call, the theatre emptied, Michael and Lisa left with the
evening's host and one or two other people, and I and the friend who had come
with me, headed out into the hideously windy, dark and wet Irish night and found
our way to the car park to go home! It had been a most unusual evening, which
I had to play the tape of to believe it really happened! •
• • Transcript of Michael's remarks:
Thank
you very much. I appreciate you asking me here to speak, although I'm not sure
after hearing everything I've just heard that I can add anything valuable to help
you make your decision, but I'll do my best. I'm very uneducated compared to you
youngsters. I grew up in Chicago, in a tough neighbourhood. I didn't really give
much thought, when my father dragged me off to boxing lessons, whether or not
it was going to be harming me or helping me, but I do know that going to school
every day I was in fist fights, and they're no fun! And they exist today the same
as when I was a kid, whether you like it or not you're going to be involved in
some of these things from time to time, or you're at least going to be around
that kind of thing.
Boxing gave me confidence. I was a small, skinny white
kid in a mostly Black and Mexican neighbourhood, and I got picked on. I learned
how to fight and it gave me a little confidence on the inside, and I daresay it
saved me in a lot of different situations. I look back on that time as being a
very good time in my life, and you know, there's a lot said about the dangers
of boxing, and you're right. I mean, I've really argued with myself on this point.
It is a dangerous sport, but there's a lot of dangerous sports. When you decide
to step into the ring against another man, and you know that when you're there
you're going to cause some damage, so is he, he's trying to take your head off,
that's part of it. As you jump out of that plane (sky-diving) you've made that
decision then, that you may get hurt. You could have to face something a lot more
dangerous than just somebody's right hand when you hit the ground. If you're in
business, you look at this, look at the sheer numbers, it doesn't matter that
one guy is hitting the other guy or how the death occurs, the death occurs. And
if the numbers are more in one sport than the other sport, then we need to back
up and ask ourselves, why are we not looking for a ban in those other sports?
And why do we isolate boxing? I tend to agree with things that were said
on both sides tonight certainly, but the truth is, people have basketballs to
turn to, or chess, but they didn't turn to that, because they really wanted to
box, and freedom of choice is freedom of choice, and that's a really important
thing to remember. They didn't turn to basketball, they wanted to box, and if
we didn't have boxing we wouldn't today have Muhammad Ali in that position, because
he chose that because he loved it. He did try other things, but he ended up in
boxing and he was poetry in motion, in the sport that he loved. Sugar Ray Leonard,
one of the greatest businessmen in America today, was a champion, superstar boxer,
and there's nothing wrong with his brain, he's a sharp guy. We wouldn't have Barry
McGuigan, Wayne McCullough, Michael Carruth, Steve Collins, and other of other
Irish heroes, people that I would certainly consider to be Irish heroes. I was
there when McGuigan fought (Taylor?) in King's Hall in Belfast, and, you know,
my parents are Irish and I had so much pride bursting out of me I couldn't contain
myself! Now, boxing, like other combative sports, has been around since
the Greeks and the Romans and the Games, and it's still around today. The difference
is today they have to wear sixteen-ounce gloves, they don't fight with their bare
fists, there is precaution, there are doctors there -- I know it's not 'Oh, the
doctor's going to save everything!', obviously not, but we're all adults and we
all understand that that can't be the case, you know. But I will say, from a young
man's point of view, and I particularly admired Nicholas here, because here's
a young man who's actually had the experience, he's been there, he can actually
talk from (the point of view of) a man who's been in the ring and knows the feeling.
He's put in the hours, he's done the training. When you're in the boxing ring,
the hardest, most difficult climb in the world is the steps into that ring, it's
the biggest mountain you will ever climb, the first time you do that. And when
you're in there, your manager isn't there, your Mom and Dad aren't there to rescue
you, and you quickly learn that you must prepare if you're going to get into that
boxing ring. It is so important that you're prepared, So yes, you experience pain,
that's the choice I made, I didn't quit after my first fight, most fighters don't,
of course -- but there's pain in life, there's pain in everything. If you run
away from pain you can go quit right now. There is some great quality to boxing,
and whether you admit this or not, it does serve the minorities well. There were
a lot of Irish people who had no money that made their name, back to Jack Dempsey
and people like that who made great names for themselves, and made it to the top
of the world with boxing. It's not all bad. I can understand why some people
would want to ban boxing, because of the way it's perceived and the way it looks.
Certainly the match-making in America, in my opinion, is suspect -- I mean, I'm
not a big fan of Don King, for instance, and those kind of fellas. I think the
most chances ever taken in boxing is when you have eighteen or nineteen different
governing bodies -- as a result you've a great fighter who's got a fabulous record,
wants to pick up a few titles, goes down to this UBFF and he fights a guy who
maybe had nine fights and no real competition, so he's mismatched, but the promoter,
in that particular instance, maybe doesn't care. He wants to pick up the belt
and get the big money fight. I know, that's the danger of the game. It would be
a much fairer game, as far as I'm concerned, if we brought it back to one governing
body, and we had more weight classes. I certainly think there should be a super-heavyweight
division today, and I certainly think as well there should be an over-thirty class,
and an over-forty class for older fighters, rather than throwing them in with
the young tigers, just to get eaten alive because they've a got a big name and
they're good pay-in. That is certainly, you know, the wrong thing to do, so I
did take -- I listened very carefully to what all the speakers had to say, and
I would tend to agree that there are changes to be made, but please, I think it
would be really wrong to consider banning boxing completely. I mean, I'm sure
there are a lot more dangerous sports, even in martial arts that I heard you talk
about earlier. I looked at the stats myself, and just what you said about the
people in the thousands in the different sports and how many lives are lost, you're
absolutely right, I looked at that myself, but there's eighty deaths every single
day in the United States from handgun murders, and certainly that should take
a lot more of our time. I know that's not specifically why we're here today, but
there are more important things than this sort of sport, and I think, all in all,
if you weigh up the balance, boxing has done a lot more good than it's done bad.
I believe it's much better today than it was before, even with a few bum promoters,
and I would shudder to think what Mike Tyson would have done in his life had he
not had boxing to turn to, and Cus D'Amato, the guy who pulled him off the street
and helped him out... I wonder where I would have been today if I'd just held
grudges against the guys who used to bloody my nose going to school, if I didn't
face the music, go in and learn from a professional, how to defend myself against
someone who was bigger and stronger, and come out and feel like a champion? Would
I have even tackled any of the stuff I tackled? I don't know, I can't say. But
for my money, I think boxing is good!
• •
• Questions & Answers at UCD debate:
Q: I'm
curious about how you made the changeover between boxing and dancing? Michael
- with a mischievous grin: Well at the time it seemed a lot safer! (Much
laughter from the audience. He added something else but the laughter drowned it
out.) Q: Did boxing help you with contract negotiations for dancing at
all? Michael (still with a twinkle): No, I seemed to come out on the
losing end of those mostly - (Again, much laughter!) - but I have other qualities! Q:
I was just wondering, in terms of everything, you take an interest in all the
aspects of performing and show life, dance, choreography, direction, production,
what's your favourite part of it? Michael: I think the whole picture.
You know, we did a lot of talking tonight about chess, and I like to play a little
bit of chess, and even though I can't do it very well I've learned an awful lot
about it, I've learned a lot about life. It's not just about one piece, or two
pieces, and the same is true of boxing. You have to have offence and defense,
and the same thing is true in my shows. There's that old saying that you have
to share, everyone needs to have their input into the show, and the truth is it
would be a dog's breakfast if I'd let that happen. You need to focus and you need
to have the picture in your head, and whatever you decide in your own mind about
boxing, or about your own careers, if you hear of some young man today that has
a dream to become the next middleweight champion of the world, you should never
deny him that dream because he may not know any other dream, and whatever your
dream is, it's something that you should pursue to the end. Take the time, learn
about it, every aspect of it - I love every aspect of my business, you know, I've
had the hard times, I've been knocked down a few times as you all know, and I've
made a lot of mistakes, probably more than all of you together will ever make...
(chuckles from the audience)... but I learned from them, that's the key. Dumb
and all as I am, I learned from them, and I got back up and I figured a way through
it. I don't know anything about debate, obviously, these other lads are much more
proficient than you and I are (looking at Simon Block, from the British Boxing
Board), but I like to take the advice of people who know, but this young man (indicating
student speaker Nicholas, the amateur boxer who spoke in the debate) is a fighter
and I would take his viewpoint, certainly on this particular subject. And in my
business I'll take advice from people, but I think it's important that you try
everything, learn how it is, make sure you know your business, anyone that's going
into the Arts. You're a fool today if you don't understand the business side of
it as well, you need to protect yourself and believe in yourself, and only follow
what's in your heart. (Big round of applause for this response) Q:
I've heard stories you're building some sort of casino and I just wondered how
that's going, and does it mean that you're giving up the dancing and it's a new
phase now? Michael: Thanks for the question. Yeah, we're... it's kind
of almost 'an impossible dream', but you know nothing is impossible. It's not
the business I want to get into, I'm not a builder, and I'm not really a businessman
per se, although I can fake my way through most of it, but it's a dream, and even
though it's a daydream, it's a dream that I've had for a long time. I think that
with any luck there'll be younger, smarter minds than me that will help bring
it to fruition, but Ireland deserves a place on that Strip in Las Vegas, and...
you know, it deserves that spot. All the other nationalities seem to be represented
there, and I don't see why we shouldn't be represented there and my thought is
that people are going to gamble anyhow, they're going to go there for fun anyhow,
and I think it's not wrong that Ireland should have a part of that and play for
it. I don't know if I'll be giving up dancing, you know, time will tell, I'm sure,
but it's closing up. Q: Will you do a dance for us? (Much laughter!) Michael:
I don't know how to dance, I never learned!
Audience member: - Maybe Sean
(host) will do it?
Sean: I don't like to... I mean it would be rude to
out-stage one of our guests.' (More laughter, and a round of applause, not least
from Michael!) Q: Have you any news about the show in South Africa? Michael:
Yes, we've sold out to the last ticket, in advance, record time, so I'm delighted
about that. Q: And what about the invitation to participate? Michael:
Yeah, you know my schedule doesn't permit for me to go down there right now, I've
to go to New York tomorrow morning and do a lot of stuff. The next three months
will be very trying, but if we can sneak a day I'll go down there and do what
I can, but at least we're proud that we're giving some of the profits to the right
causes down there. And we opened in Taiwan this morning, and we'll be in Dubai
by the end of the week, so we're opening new territories, and you know, bad and
all as we are, we're bringing Irish culture to parts of the world that haven't
experienced it. Q: Which was the greatest fight you've ever seen? Michael:
Oh, that's a great one! Ahh, well I loved - there's many great fights, from my
point of view, Hagler/Hearns is one of the most exciting fights I've ever seen,
certainly... One fight that intrigued me was the last fight between Muhammad Ali
and Joe Frazier, mainly because it made me wonder about the mindset of both men,
and the distance they had come in their lives and their careers, as fighters and
as men. They fought, really, incredibly well over the fourteen rounds, but when
the bell rang for the fifteenth round, only one fighter got off his stool, so
what was the difference? - whether it was boxing or whatever it was for, what
was the difference between Muhammad Ali and Joe Frazier? Why did one guy stand
up to fight that one last round and the other guy just said 'No, I can't.' And
it wasn't a matter of boxing, they both took, you know, in fairness, a good beating
that night, but one guy had something special inside, and I for one am glad that
I was alive to see that moment, to see so much courage coming out of one person.
He would emerge as a champion in any given role that he did, but thank God he
had somewhere to make use of his talents, and I think that was one of the greatest
fights ever.
• • • Click
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mail list/discussion group, the largest on the Web for fans of Michael Flatley,
where one can find all the latest news and information relating to Michael Flatley
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Dublin Correspondent:
Ann Keller
Feature: Bernadette
Price
Original Web Design: Alexander
Servas
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